Prize Money

[onthedeck]

Whatever happened to the prize money in TC. 15 years ago there used to 3 times the amount of prize money, are the hunts getting greedy or are sponsors getting tighter. Have just had only a quick look at 1 event and they took over £5700 in entries alone and paid out £1810 in prize money. this does not include spectators, trade stands and sponsorship. Come on you guys & gals you're risking your neck for nothing apart from the prestige of taking part. I am going to look at other events and will let you all know the outcome :eek:

[burty]

There's always a lot more expenses than you expect at events, but I guess the team chases are run as a fund raiser so can't see why they should give us the whole lot:p
Would like to see more prizes going down the line though, rather than just 1st 2nd and 3rd.

[Vixen]

Hello Onthdesk

May I suggest a little light reading ?

The thread entitled "can someone help me with the maths" Has covered this topic a little, maybe you can help answer the question?

[onthedeck]

Hi Vixen
Have had a little light reading, but am not concerned over sponsorship nor the AGM I was pointing a finger at the very lack of income tranferred into prize money. If the Belvoir Hunt were prepared to pay £1200 to the winning team of the open 15 years ago why has the prize money declined and the entry fee's increased. The prize money now would barely keep your horse for a week. In the thread Essex & Suffolk states 7 Open & 7 Intermediate teams turned up....If the prize money was greater then more teams would be prepared to travel.

Burty
I accept that it costs money to hold these events, but, when people are charged £5 to £10 per vehicle for parking, £80 to £120 per team entry trade stands are charged for their plots, the bar (after reading this site) must make a fortune, individual fence sponsors charged and finally the main sponsor £50k ??????????? WHAT!!!!!! Yes it is a fund raiser and yes the hunt should make money but so should the people competing that are risking themselves and more importantly their horses.

COME ON YOU TIGHT FISTED ORGANISERS SHARE MORE OUT!!!!!!

[burty]

Lol, I like you're line of thinking onthedeck, i'm behind you all the way! I dread to think how much it works out at if you listed the expenses and broke it down to price per jump;)

[fred]

Are we reinventing the wheel here or what!!! If the MFHA and the organisers were more open and there were some ACCOUNTS published we would all know how much it costs per fence to hold an event. I personally think the prize money is fine as it is. To win an envelope stuffed with cash is always great but it is not the reason for competing or wanting to win. I do think though that when an event such as the Bicester this year has not one but TWO sponsors for the open to not up the prize money even a small amount is pretty crap. Mind you if we dont win any money at least there is no risk of getting pulled in the lorry on the way home and done for not having an operators license (see this week h&h)!!

[belinda]

yes, and for all those eventers out there look how much it costs to run an event horse,train in all 3 phases, register, enter, ballot etc in the hope of winning a dandy brush or a week as a working pupil for leslie law!!! (believe me I have been there)..

Prize money is not why the majority of teams compete and I hope we are all happy to support the hunts who hold our events without any vested interest in our sport.

The hunts have enough issues of their own at present maintaining their infra structure and support until the Hunting Act is repealled and they can resume business as normal, team chases are simply a fund raising activity and affiliation to the MHFA is more out of a sense of "duty" and unwillingness to rock the boat.. if the advantage of not affiliating continues to outweigh any benefit I expect moe will soon decide not to renew their affiliation

[Vixen]

Sorry on the deck, must have given you the wrong thread to lightly read. Your chosen specialist subject was a particular favourite rant of mine and I think i worked out somewhere the approximate takings of certain events, but cant for the life of me remember where its gone.. JD has numbed my brain, its on a thread somewhere......

Ha! I remember the leslie law thing .. ! Very amusing ! Think the winner rang up and asked if she could take her entire yard over there as there would be no one to run her yard! And would she, as a working pupil be learning how to shovel shit as she could do it very nicely already thank you !

P.S Apologies to on the deck for refering to said member, in the last thread, as on the DESK ! I think its called a freudian slip :-)

[fred]

It will come as no surprise for you to know that I never did use the prize and as yet have not had the privilage of shovelling the shit of any of Leslie's horses. We did think it would be rather amusing for the owner of said horse to turn up at Mr Laws yard. She was about 58 years old at the time, (though fitter than I am) and extremely well turned out and always beautifully manicured!! I still have the certificate, it is pinned on the wall somewhere on the yard as a reminder of how winning doesn't pay! You are absolutely right belinda, when i think of all the prizes we have won eventing we have never come home with the cash we win teamchasing. It is rather ironic that the horse that has given me some of the best rides of my life (and believe me i've had a few!), pictures in the horse and hound and many many £10 notes of prize money was orignally ridden by and evented very sucessfully right to the top by Leslie Law. :cool:

[onthedeck]

TC is nothing like eventing, you may not get great rewards for eventing apart from the points but those points turn into great sums of cash upon selling the great animal that carried you. If you win an open TC and then want to sell your great beast, the norm would normally steer well clear of this lunatic that would kill itself rather than stop. Therefore as i have stated earlier if a hunt took over £5700 in entries alone and paid out £1800 in prize money, that gives the hunt £3900 profit, plus the main sponsors input for their event, public charged at £5 to £10 per vehicle etc....... Fred the prize money is not enough!!!!!! the envelope that you describe "STUFFED WITH CASH" has to be split 4 ways then that becomes a poor amount.
Burty, I do agree that if the prize money stays the same for the top guys then at least pay further down the line.... A rosette does not feed a horse...

Finally, for all those out there who compete just to support their hunt and don't care about the prizes, then you are fools, I Hunt, TC, XC, fun ride and PtP of which all of those is supporting my hunt and many more, but, if 1 of your horses were to break down do you really think that your hunt would give a hoot, then you are sadly brainwashed. So whilst competing doing extreme sports then at least compete for a prize that is worth competing for...

[burty]

I think most of us teamchase because it's fun.
And yes we are mostly fools:D

[belinda]

With team chasing and hunting both under threat I think the last thing owners and riders should be concerned about is the prize money - we do it because we enjoy it and our horses enjoy it.

Anyone who wants to make big bucks out of horses should take up showjumping, dressage or racing.

BTW onthedeck I know very few people who have made a profit out of selling even an advanced event horse.....and there are quite a few horses with a good number of eventing points on the open TC circuit!

[Vixen]

So, On the deck, whats your team and where are you based ? its great to get some like minded thoughts from some new blood on the forum :-)

[bollockstoblair]

The hunts can run a very profitable team chase with no open (or no qualifier) and yet the 98% of competitors who do not compete in qualifiers have no voice at the agm and until THIS most basic issue of a constitution is addressed we will NEVER be able to be considered a SERIOUS equine activity! If it were not for the incredibly, disproportionate (but very welcome) support of the Horse and Hound our sport would have disapeared into obscurity long ago.
we survive by the skin of our teeth and UNTIL we realise that we are TOTALLY dependant on the allegiance of EVERY SINGLE one of the organising hunts, and that we must look to THEIR agenda, and work with them (probably through LOCAL sponsors) we are seriously looking down the barrel of a loaded gun!
We live in the 21st century ... and with the reality of a hunting ban. no previous generation have done this! Let us help each individual hunt survive until the repeal of the wretched law allows us the luxury of putting our sport in front of the needs of the hunts. We will all survive with less (or no) prize money - the hunts will NOT!!! With NO hunts there will be NO team chasing.
The organising committee of team chasing should consist SOLELY of HUNT representatives, for this is the ONLY way that the sport can survive. (THEIR survival is OUR survival).
Call me Radical - we live in times where ONLY radical changes will work!! ... and we have a chairman who tells us the sport is thriving (he lives in a country called cloud cuckoo land sometime in the 19th century!)

[fred]

I think onthedeck might live there too?!?!? :cool:

[Alpha - 1st ...]

Speaking from the perspective of a new team that has just joined you all I would say that if there are more funds available then they should be used to develop the sport for the future.

We don't compete for the cash, we compete to WIN! To beat you lot! The cash is pretty irrelevant and as so many have already said - it's a nat bite on an elephants arse when compared to the real costs of competing.

Assuming there are some funds available I would like to see them being used to market team chasing to more people; what about an intermediate championship, what about a novice championship, what about a junior / pony championship? There's far more potential to attract competitors in these classes as oppose to the Open!? However all the focus is on the Open!?

[Vixen]

HA HA HA! Love that phrase gnats bite .... HA ! Good one ! Yes mentioned an intermediate champs at the AGM,we suggested that it could be held at a different event to the OPEN final, give more venues a chance of hosting a final, more excitement etc...........(I think the Intermediate is even more fiercly contested than the open)Fell upon deaf ears Im afraid......... As did my other suggestions of using local radio to promote and having decent signs on the roadways to bring in Jo Public and all their lovely cash etc etc etc goodness Ive gone all " King and I " which is how it all feels to me. There was talk of a league table at the AGM starting at the cotswolds for OPEN & INT speed is one to be published Im sure they said starting at the Costwolds the one just gone.

Is it true, I heard a rumour that kingsclere (please see thread ...scottish play) is on 15th April ? I was listening in on gossip again!! but was on to my eleventh Jack at the time.

[onthedeck]

Many years before the threat of a hunting ban the Hunts had become greedy (Poor Prize Money) also there are more teams competing now than 15 years ago (albeit not so many in open class) so Cockoo land I may live at times but for someone who is not brainwashed thats is the only place I will get a sensible person to have a conversation with.

What are you all talking about, "NO PRIZE MONEY", "WE LOVE IT & OUR HORSES LOVE IT" and Alpha - 1st "We don't compete for the cash, we compete to WIN! To beat you lot! The cash is pretty irrelevant and as so many have already said - it's a nat bite on an elephants arse when compared to the real costs of competing".

YES I AGREE, "it's a nat bite on an elephants arse " It sure is, the prize money is pathetic, The Badsworth Open qualifier £260 Shared 4 ways. I will work this out for you all as I'm not sure that you are too clever, £65 per person. Barely a set of shoes!!!!

[burty]

£65 per person. Barely a set of shoes!!!!
I tend to get mine from Asda, fiver a pair.;)

[Vixen]

Oh Burty, do you go to Asda for shoes too ! ? Not sure where on the deck goes? £65 is not quite russell and bromley and its certainly not going to get me a pair of Jimmies

So, it would seem apparent that On the Deck will be coming along to the next AGM to air his/her views and meet all the fick people. Im booking ringside seats! my money is On ,on the deck, although im sure our illustrious chair will evade the questions very nicely!

[onthedeck]

The MFHA may evade all questions and brush aside good ideas but at the end of the day it is the Hunt that decides Who is paid what and what classes are put on. How can one hunt pay £500 and another £260. The MFHA are not to blame for that!!!!!

[bollockstoblair]

on the contary, my friend, the MFHA state very clearly in their rules (to be found on this very site) exactly how much prize money should be awarded and how it should be distributed. The fact that they seem to have forgotten to implement this rule this season is no doubt due to the fact that they were too busy creating new unenforcable rules!!
rule 6 reads
PRIZE MONEY
The level will be dependent on the generosity of Organisers and Sponsors. Winners should not normally receive more than one third of the total prize fund. Larger prize money in Open events should be distributed well down the line. Large monetary prizes are not desirable for secondary competitions. The prize fund for Open Qualifiers must not be less than £800 – although the Standing Committee hopes it will be £1,000 or more – of which a minimum of 35% must go to the winning team (on the basis that national sponsorship of Open Qualifiers is £500 per event).

[burty]

My maths is terrible, i can't make that lot add up!

[Vixen]

Furthermore it is the MFHA who decides when. Also where (with regard to the championships) And the MFHA I believe (im probably wrong) also decide on affiliation.

But in effect you are correct OTD they could be a little more generous!!! The MFHA if they so desired could lean on them ! Hence our request for accounts.... and so we go round in circles again again.......

[fred]

ok OTD at the risk of sounding like cilia black 'what's your name and where do you come from'???

ps i really like the ideas from Alpha 1st - did you go to the AGM?

[Vixen]

ok OTD at the risk of sounding like cilia black 'what's your name and where do you come from'???

ps i really like the ideas from Alpha 1st - did you go to the AGM?

Ok you guys Im taking bets- please private message me on your wagers ;-) Im betting female as the spelling and punctuation are too good for a bloke !

[fred]

Got to be over 30 or wouldn't know anything about teamchasing prize money 15 years ago. Think you are right vixen - female. Probably evented as knows about points etc. Not had to make a living buying and selling event horses (under the impression points mean profit) as would be too poor to own computer! Hunts, teamchases, point to points??? I know! I got it! You are Princes Ann!!!

[Vixen]

Yes with you on the over 30s Im thinking 40s as goes to bed early so may be a member of the sloe gin and slippers club ! Definately female as a male acquaintance of mine knows who it is (but wont tell) and he always hangs out with the ladies.

Oh this is fun !!!!!

[fred]

If the male acquaintance is who I think it is it definately isn't Princess Ann! Onthedeck could be an appropriate alias for this man! He does have many effeminate tendancys maybe being able to spell and punctuate is one of them!!

[Vixen]

Youre right its adam !! The male acquaintance.
I reckon OTD lives in the North of the country, hence the "no beating around the bush replies!"

[fred]

or in africa hence the reference to elephants.

[onthedeck]

The fact that they seem to have forgotten to implement this rule this season is no doubt due to the fact that they were too busy creating new unenforcable rules!!


Well, I rest my case. Phrases like "forgotten to implement" and "too busy" makes me wonder if the Hunts and organisers have the sports best interest
at heart.

Been looking through the results and great to see the Gorings and Odds & Sodds still going (Do the twins still ride and is Geoff still riding)???? What has happened to the Fosse Manor and Trailblazers???? and most importantly the world domination by the Forge Flyers??

[Emma 1]

Not read all the posts on this particular thread, so i may be repeating myself (nothing unusual there)

Team chasing is organised by hunts, on hunting land, originally for the purpose of raising money for hunt funds. My hunt made a profit for the first time in its history, last year. We're not talking thousands, it was around the grand mark. This year, to date, we have made slightly more, mostly due to fundraising.

If you want prize money go showjumping. Preferably abroad. If you want teamchasing, contribute to your local hunt - if it disappears so does your sport - volunteer to help out as we are always short staffed, and stop bloody moaning.

[Emma 1]

Saying that, my previous post underlines the integrity of teamchasing.

However, i am in agreement with many of us that the decisions made at top level are undemocratic. I.e we don't have a say.

I think this needs to be changed before we can start beefing about prize money.

[burty]

Nice to have you back on board Em.

Sobered up after our birthday night out have we?:D

[belinda]

Well, I rest my case. Phrases like "forgotten to implement" and "too busy" makes me wonder if the Hunts and organisers have the sports best interest
at heart.

Been looking through the results and great to see the Gorings and Odds & Sodds still going (Do the twins still ride and is Geoff still riding)???? What has happened to the Fosse Manor and Trailblazers???? and most importantly the world domination by the Forge Flyers??

Boring gorings qualifying team at the Atherstone included Bollocks to Blair on one of my horses and Rowan on another -they fell and remounted (before the rule change) and took the team home - experienced horse and rider both trotted up sound the next day and the team came in third earning enough prize money to pay for the outing.. what more could you want? Graham Smith from the Flyers is now riding regularly with the Gorings and Debbie has run with us, (on her intermediate event horse) the Hairaisers and other teams all of whom are delighted to have her on board. .....Actually the Open Teams and riders are prepared to work together ensure horses and riders get the runs so that we can put together competitive teams !!

[onthedeck]

2 Quotes same person

If you want prize money go showjumping. Preferably abroad. If you want teamchasing, contribute to your local hunt - if it disappears so does your sport - volunteer to help out as we are always short staffed, and stop bloody moaning.

However, i am in agreement with many of us that the decisions made at top level are undemocratic. I.e we don't have a say.

I make one post on a forum, having the freedom of speech as democracy allows, then I'm told to "stop bloody moaning", from what I can make out this is exactly the way that you are all treated by the MFHA and don't like it.!!!! Then the same person moans that, " decisions made at top level are undemocratic". Sounds like Cake and Eat it!!!!!

Belinda, glad your horse is ok, and thoroughly happy with your diesel money for your day out!!! I fully believe your horse is worth more than a couple of gallons of diesel...............

[belinda]

Of course - my horses are far more valuable than any prize money they would ever win. The point of my comment was that I trusted the rider to make a judgment as to whether they were both fit to continue.That is not to say I disagree with the new rule ...we have all had our say on that one already and all agree it is not a bad rule!!

Hope the info about current situation re Boring Gorings and Forge Flyers was of interest.....can't believe you are so out of touch!!!

[fred]

I dont think its fair or correct to tar the MFHA and the organising hunts with the same brush. We (most of us anyway) object to the way the MFHA runs teamchasing. We think they should be more open, they should publish accounts, be honest about where the money is going, they should consult more with the riders, listen to what people have got to say, be less pompous and arogant and move the sport forward rather worrying so much about their own personal interests. None of these criticisms can be pointed at the hunts. If you think the hunts should give more prize money that is your opinion to which you are perfectly entitled to have and air on this site. I personally think the prize money is not an issue. The only issue I have with the organising hunts is why they pay the MFHA loadsamoney for bugger all. Except to be given a date to run their teamchase on the same day as the one down the road. They should all deaffiliate and do their own thing. That is my opinion that I know is shared by many people. The hunts that run teamchases and the MFHA are NOT one and the same.

[onthedeck]

Fred, you are absolutely right regarding MFHA, but, I still believe that the hunts can pay more prize money for the top teams. The prize money in Novice and Intermediate is absolutely fine but the drop of £800 at least for the winner of an open is far tooooo much. Can anyone show me how, where and when this has happened in other equestrian sports???

[onthedeck]

Looks like I rest my case!!!!!!!!! BIG GRIN!!!!!!!!:)